Hashing It Out
Hashing It Out

Episode 106 · 1 year ago

Hashing It Out #106-SuperRare NFT Marketplace

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today, Corey and Jaye talk with Ryan Collins from SuperRare, an NFT platform that gives continuous royalties to the artists that create them as they're traded throughout the market place. We go into how it works, how it differentiates itself, where they're at, where they're going, and much more! Enjoy

LINKS:

- Website: https://superrare.com 

- Twitter: https://twitter.com/SuperRare 

- Ryan's Twitter: https://twitter.com/rymcol 

Welcome to hashing it out, a podcast where we talked to the tech innovators behind blocked in infrastructure and decentralized networks. We dive into the weeds to get at why and how people build this technology the problems they face along the way. Come listen and learn from the best in the business so you can join their ranks. Welcome back everybody. Episode one hundred six pashing it out. As always, I'm your host, Dr Corey pay today that comes to be Ja. She's from Quan stamp, always helping out. I'm wonderful. Say Hello J Hellos, morning, I'm doing well. Today's guests got Ryan Collins from Super Rare for interesting nft platform that I've not amough for a long time. Colin. Right, Ryan, why don't you do the normal thing give us a quick introduction. That's to like how you got into the space and what super area is. Sure. Thanks, Cory. Thank you for having me on the PODCAST. I'm happy to be here. So I have a bit of a weird, weird background. I started in the server administration world and I became more quickly interested in actually developing things and I got into front end software development. Then I got up into back end software development, mobile development, and it kind of evolved from there. And then I started working in the opps world after I took a few CTO roles and that type of thing, because it kind of when you when you have experience and all of the above, it's just kind of a natural world to go to. And I ended up running Dev suck ops for a German do anything on the blockchain start up. That pivoted into a real estate asset tokenization start up, which then pivoted into securities Brokera, which was an interesting ride, and after that I ended up at at super rare. My official title right now is the head of us are but I still handle all of the like Dev Sec op style things too, because it's a very small team. What about Super Rare? So, like what is like your give us a like elevator pitch is super rare, and then also, like the o their pitch of how it differentiates itself from like the myriad of nft platform you can find today. Yeah, so my mine, I'll tell you from my perspective to and this is like my personal opinion as well, but when I met super rare, I so I had been tracking the space for a little bit because I was already working in blockchain and I actually knew and nft are, a talented nft artist from one of my former jobs. And when I met them it was basically like what really differentiated them from me was that they cared about the artist. Like everything's very artist focused and collector focused and it wasn't corporate deal moneymaking focused. You know, there's a lot of focus on like the one, two ones, very unique pieces. The they have a high person dozing, yeah, but they have a high respect for the rarity of the actual pieces and like, from my perspective, they were one of them. I would call them the the more premium platforms that exist. Unlike I'm I've been really happy to to land a position and and started a company that that kept that focus the whole time. So like super a, restarted by basically three guys in a coffee shop who were interested in art and wanted to make a little market just, you know, to do their own thing together, and it was it was the interest in art and the interest in the technology that kind of drove that and I would like in my words, they I would say they accidentally created a really cool company. Definitely been around for a long time. I mean we they were part of the so there are part of the status incubate program, which is now currently defunct. But it was one of the earliest projects that I think we took on to try and like help get bootstrapped. And I remember when I was in I want to say Prague. Yeah, we did a hackathon and Prague and was it progue? I forget it, it's been so long ago. And covid has this really yeah, and and they had this huge like it was a it was a really cool building that we did it in and they had this like huge display of all of the NFT's and photo frames of like that like you could see kind of animated and live. It was just really cool to do it. It was those, I think, one of the earliest ones that I had seen of like actual production and and and legitimate product in NFC space. I'm happy to see...

...that they're like still round and and killing it. No, I remember seeing them at some very various hackathons throughout that year and a little bit earlier, as just you know, I think when I first started seeing them they were just like a little table if they'd set up in like we're doing NFPs or whatever you know, and I don't think anyone really knew, at least from an outside perspective, like what it would grow into, and it's grown into like this like really great project. Yeah, the guys there were originally trying to develop a like a market place platform that other people could use to make nft market places, and then they ended up making their own as sort of like an example, let's do it, let's see what we could do, sort of project. That became superher and that's really what took off, and I think it's also a question of good market timing, like anything else has. They just the space started taking off. They had the technology, they already had some of the artist relationships and they were kind of cording that and it worked out very well. Theo can you, like, is there a differentiating mechanism of the NFT market place that that, because I can in my opinion, now that they're the hard part now is making sure that artists who would like to be like can participate in creating an ft art under like figure out where to go and make it like make it easy for them to on board and get their art onto a market place and then align the Incentiz in such a way that there they are maximally taken care of, or like they do. They do get two benefits associated was the value of their art, and one of the I think what you have to front page here is that, like pioneering art markets royalty. So, like artists receive continuous royalties for all secondary sales on their artwork forever. So, like, does that mean that if I were an artist on uploaded an n FT onto super rare, every time that thing gets sold, I get a percentage of that sale? And like, how does the how exactly does that work? That's correct. So, like one of the main different I mean that's that's all smart contract focused on the theory and blockchain and you can use technical as you want. Here is a very technical show. So like don't, don't, don't, don't mint worts. So it's in the EARC seven twenty one contract and and basically that the royalties are built into the contract and we actually just recently rolled out collect or royalties it as well for the same purpose. And I think overall, I forget what the exact percentages are off the top of my head, but basically, if you if you meant an artwork on superher and it gets sold to a collector, you make a pretty significant chunk of the first sale as an artist, and then every time that collector sells it to another collector, you do make an additional royalty and then collectors who sellt resell art can also make additional royalties. So you have almost like a cascading royalty type thing. It's it's was that original or was that royalty model, because I know that's that's at the transaction level. Was that pioneer quite superher? Absolutely. I think that's one of the things that they really focused on in the beginning was getting those smart contracts, to focus on forward, to to focus on not only keeping the rarity and keeping the quality of the platform up, but really to focus on that that model where artist can be supported forever based on their artwork. You know, it's not, it's not. You know, it's not the traditional model where you buy a piece of art from a gallery, hang it on your wall and like, you have no way to you know, the third or fourth collector down the chain has no way to contact the artist. It's a smart contract and it the transactions always taking place on atherium and the smart contracts always handle the the the percentages, the addresses and everything else involved. So, as an artist, I think it's really motivating to get onto a platform like super rare and to sell there, because it's a way to actually build a profitable business for yourself. I have some technical questions around that, but I think it's it's reasonable to start at a high level and and anyone who's listening who isn't technical can get the most out of this. So, like if I were an artist, can you walk me through the process of just engaging, engaging the platform and like what I can expect and maybe like the time to be live and doing something? Yeah, so right now I would say it's a little bit longer than the business would like it to be, but basically you have to fill out a form to express interest and then the artist liaison table will take a look at the artist, their works, what they've done in the past, the the quality of this, you know, the types of things that they produce on that and it's sort of it's always been a filter to getting on board to keep...

...out the riff Raff and the hecklers and the people who are just looking to mint super super simple variations of the same thing over and over and over again to try and make a quick buck. It's really more about the art and that. And then once you're an approved artist, you basically you can sign in with a web three auto wallet. Right right now, believe we're supporting formatic Meta mask and any wallet connects supportable while it. We actually rolled wallet connect support out recently, which I am personally absolutely stoked about and having a ton of fun with myself. And then that, once you sign into the actual website, that gives you the ability to upload art which we are basically storing on an IPFs note like a Selfhouse, that IPFs. No, that then gets distributed out it's distributed. You take care that that dead pinnings for I gfs to start going to go away up and then from there you can you can set you know, you're either your reserve price or you're asking prices and stuff like that, and then that all gets put into the smart contract stuff in the back end and then it goes out to the the actual market place at large. I would say from what I've seen, like I'm not an artist on the platform right now and from what I've seen it it's a pretty good basic user experience for such a new platform that only gained popularity in the recent year. Two for the art, the actual art curation. Were specific galleries sort of looked at to sort of build that model, or was it sort of was it more arch at it, like you know, because the superhero definitely, as you say, is is trying to you, you know, have a particular level of art and maintain that that as a collection. Like it feels very much like a collection. When I go to the website, I feel like I am this is the super rare gallery. is how it feels as a from a UX perspective. Yeah, I I would say that I think there is a mix of intentions and organic stuff, and I'll put that with just a small grain of salt that I've only been working here for about three months now, so I wasn't there at the beginning and I didn't see the platform involved. That's fair. Definitely, looking at it, I mean it's yeah, it's very it's, I would call it, in its current form, highly curated, though as that are going to change. It's every can be something that you probably expand out to a like a broader audience or use it is the goal to stay relatively curated, or at least, like I mean, of course you may streamline the process of being vetted and being on the platform, but, like, is the goal to stay somewhat of a niche, like high quality artwork platform? I definitely think the goal is to keep the rarity, the quality of artists, the quality of artwork and stuff like that up the the focus on on that is going to be good and, like, I don't think they're going to compromise too much on the esthetics or anything else in the future. But I will say that every platform wants to grow, like there has to be market fit for that. There has to be a lot of things and it's a very careful balance of what the users, you know, what the users want, with the market at large needs in order to succeed in like what the company needs to be profitable and succeed and stuff. I won't speculate on any like future undecided features or plans and that kind of thing. But, like, I mean, superers not not going to go anywhere and we are definitely we definitely have pain points identified and we're definitely working on solutions to those pain points. You speak to any of those, like what kind of pain points are you referring to and like what maybe solutions are you thinking about? I can't. Again, I can't speculate too much on future features or anything, partially because I'm responsible for the infrastructure and not necessarily the P and I don't I don't actually write the back end software. What I do is a lot of coordination, security work and stuff like that. But I think, I think that many quality artists in the past have probably felt slowed down and annoyed by the process of on boarding because it is so highly curated, and I think they're there are many other nft platforms that have rolled out a wide variety of business...

...models and features very quickly that you know, we're always watching the market to and I think what we may there may be things that people end up wanting that the of course, the business team and the tech team will always consider developing. What those actually are, I don't know. Or are so it's hard to say what that will become like. Like a year ago this business looked completely different. The whole market and landscape was just taking off and like it's all such new technology, new marketing, new everything that like I don't even know what it's going to look like exactly in six months, but I'm sure has changed drastically quickly. I think we can all test to that. I'm sure it will be absolutely awesome. Though. Is the is there any sort of upcoming interesting artist coming in the pipeline or collaborations? And is the end? And I guess at times that question is is that going to continue to be be the general focus psyche or is superhero going to kind of branch out from from that as an art space? So you know, when you're talking about like that, the curation and stuff that's going on. We're talking a lot about the blogging, the featuring and stuff is a big part of that. It's it's how you have a sort of gallery model online. I don't think that's going anywhere. I think that they're looking at high, very high quality and very select collaborations, partnerships and that type of thing. But there's still a huge, and I mean huge, focus on supporting the artist, supporting their royalties long term, getting good artists onto the platform, getting good collectors onto the platform, actually supporting the collectors and there's definitely a small down play of like corporate partnerships and stuff like those come absolutely secondary to the art, the artists and the collectors themselves that power the platform, Car Jay, if they're going to be an exploration in Arnist in terms of other forms of metisine, metispace, like gallery viewing, you know, because going to the website and scrolling through like it's a social media side is one thing, you know, and that's great, but I feel there's got to be deeper ways to experience. Absolutely it has, you know, art as a gallery. Yeah, absolutely, and we were we just had a team out at the La art show that was featuring some of the NFT's on the platform and trying to introduce the platform to more people in the traditional sense of like hey, where, you know, this is a big art show, but k come take a look at some of this newer technology. Say Look, look at the NFT's, take a look at the value and the types of things you can do on the platform, because it's sort of also expands traditional art in an awesome sort of way. Like you can't do d rendered video art as like a painting that hangs on the wall, unless it's you know, it's already digital and you know, and then you have to power up with with some type of screen which I know there are companies looking into right now making specific nft screens. I've seen a couple things on twitter and I forget the names of the companies, but I know that's a thing. But like definitely feed on the ground at art shows, at etherium conferences. We were just in Paris for for that as well. That's definitely something that's cord of a business as well and definitely I just that reaching out to the commune, the traditional art community and the nft community within person in both I think we're going to be like blown away when AAR and starts to become more mainstream, I'd say, and you go into these digital galleries and are able to, because I get if he's all blow up, because they're already digital right, and maybe you have these three dierrendered things, you'll be able to like see them in a physical space as you're walking around and the almost interact at the Middle Way and having ownership of that type of thing or like it. Really it really draws you into a more a more surreal experience which which allows you to guess from from an art perspective, allows you to like experience the art in a much different way. So like I'm very much excited for that type of thing. And when you start to then couple that with a curation of like higher quality art and going to a gallery and having a real experience of like fine art in a digital sense, it's something that I think is like on the horizon of this type of stuff and it's very interesting to see. And then when you further couple that with like the artists actually getting paid not...

...only for the original sale but say, like a secondary market place, like a percentage of secondary marketplace sales, like, you have a higher potential of like an industry of art where the really artist can actually not be poverty stricken unless they hit it. Like it perfectly right, absolutely, like I said, I question there it does. It gives it gives the artists a way to make a profitable business for themselves because they can count royalties of the secondary sales forever on the block chain, because that's all handled by the smart contracts, you know. And and from my perspective, and like Sorre that bobs and security and stuff, I kind of love it because, like it takes like what I'm really hosting is the interface to those smart contracts, and Half my infrastructure is just the etherium blockchain in the community at large. So like it makes I always say like, like, I love working here because it makes my job a lot easier. Now, from like I we all work in security and with some way, ship or form, at least on this, on this on this particular episode, and I would have to agree with you from a like a ahead of head of security for status and knowing that a good portion of infrastructure is not is non custodial, like I don't have to be responsible for other people's things and we have this massive, open, permiscialist network that has a high level of security. That is makes my job significantly easier. Most of what I end up thinking about, not d be curious if you feel the same way, is trying to make software that's intuitive for the users, that they can make the right decision at the right time with the information they have in front of them and not so much like making that decision for them. How does that work? As super rare in terms of like making security decisions for the infrastructure you have to uphold. I mean it's always it's tough a balance of we have to make sure that it's expensive enough to attack, that that it's not worth it, and that always factors heavily into our security decisions. But also, like smart contracts in and of themselves can have flaws and and sometimes those flaws are only exploitable with lots and lots and lots of money, which you know, that also comes comes down to our decisionmaking. Having Regular Security Audits and bug bounty programs and stuff like that also factors into our security strategy, and I would say that we are very careful when developing the contracts with long having long testing periods for features and things, and we definitely wouldn't over enable features in a way that could allow users themselves to make decisions on what goes into the contracts. That would actually make them easier to break into. Is there a part of your infrastructure, at least on the spark contract side, that holds, like the contracts whole, a lot of money? Because it feels this though, like if I'm if I'm thinking about it naively, that it's more of a transfer process and you never actually hold onto money or pool money much like you would like. You see defies things to write most of the time and defy applications. You're pulling a bunch of money into a vault and then using that money to do other things, whereas for an, if you marketplace it's it's a market place for transfer. You just provide the mechanism and never really hold on to the assets. Is that how it works? Yeah, that's correct, and we get all the tiny little little royalty that comes to us, but ninety five person of it or so goes out. It's is just transferred by the smart contracts and we don't actually touch it. It's I love the technology and, like I said, the etherium blockchain and all, and I really believe in the space because it's provide adding a lot more value to the creators who are actually creating things. It's providing value to some of the people, the collectors, who act as middlemen in the future, like the collector royalties. Was a big launch for us very recently and that's now possible on our on our sales set up and stuff, and that's it's really cool that. You know, I've seen single struggling moms working at things like, you know, grocery store jobs and stuff like that, who are artists on the side who've been able to to make a living off of their art now and support their children and have a life that it's like way, way better, and it's all it's all down to how that mechanism works and like they're not having to struggle as much because the market right now is fetching high prices for the rarity. There's a lot of collectors of the theoryum out there who who are buying and there are a lot of secondary transactions. Like the secondary markets huge. Actually see that on the main on them, on the main site. The have a couple stats in the main site that show. I just lost it. Here we are, so you we're a million earned by artists, twenty six...

...million secondary sales and average Rey. So value is six thousand eight hundred and forty two percent. Yeah, it's huge. It's massive. Way Why is that? Why is that the case? You have any stickulation on that? It's just people see the value in it. They put like there's a lot, you know, you get a lot of the maysayers and the market or but like, I saw a really funny tweet a few weeks back where, you know, like somebody took a picture in the gift shop of the Louver and like it was of posters of the Mona Lisa and some of the art there that you could like buy to put on your own wall, like the you know, the reproduction prints or whatever, and says like, oh no, they're stealing the NFT business model, or you can just get it cheaper and hang it on your wall anyway. But like the ownership supporting the artists, like there's a there's a lot of things as enables. It enables the metaverse experiences in the metaverse galleries and it's just I think it's gonna continue to take the world by surprise and I think it's going to last a lot longer than anyone, you know on the normal news media would speculate at this time. That was kind of leading into my next question, would have been sort of sort of the growth of it. And Yeah, that that tweet comment. I mean it's interesting because economic model that actually incentivises people to share and get people to, you know, make their an a team more note notable and it totally breaks down this idea of it. It blends copy left and, you know, an ownership in a very interesting way because it's like yeah, just, you know, I want it out there. I wanted out there because then I, you know, me as an owner and am able to, you know, maybe make a profit on this as an asset, but you know, if you're a real collector, it's you know, it's really interesting. Yeah, I've also been an entrepreneur and the entrepreneurial community for a long time and one of the harder lessons I had to learn early on is that, you know, competition or sharing of an idea is really good, because the more people that make noise about something generally, the more people know about it and get excited about it, get into it. Like it grows the market at large and you really need that effect in a lot of places. And it's the same with NFTS. It's even the same with baseball cards. It's like the the rarity of something, or the ownership of the rarity of something is is valuable, and that's that's been created in the nft space right now, especially, especially with art, like there are other use cases for RC seven, hundred and twenty one and basically one to one ownership tracking, you could say, property beads is like there's a lot of things you could put on chain if you want it to. Yeah, but someone happens project. It's almost as if NFP's have just found a way to monetized strike send effect. Yeah, I was going to say that. Like, yeah, with any with any innovative technology or a new use case for any any technology, it usually starts off in a more playful or high value use case, for for niche markets and use. Then for NFTS, that's typically the form of like gaining at art, right, and then what that ends up doing is building infrastructure and market places for facilitating the use of those things. And right now, like it's very hard to understand. How do you, like even for enough tease, like for for art and FT's. I have one. What I do with it? All Right, so I've even personally, because I'm a tinker. You can see a broken down TV behind me that, like I like building things, and one of the things that I've considered building is just like get something like an nft. It looks like a picture frame on the wall that is very high quality, good angle and good doing angle, etc. That just rotates through the NFT's but, like, people like me already built these things and graded businesses around them, which is the infrastructure you need to then support artists actually doing this and then making money off it, right, because, like people want like. That's a really cool thing to have in your house, is a beautiful picture frame on your wall that rotates through all the different kinds of art that you've created, that you have like, and then you have solid ownership of and potential resale values. You have wealth locked up in it. Exactly. That's a really cool thing just for the art industry. With the proliferation of K HDR TV is, you know, I mean there has been that makerspace side of those kinds of things. It's you know, it's almost like it's feels very soon that like that as a APP should be productized and its ability to actually maintain...

...itself as an APP is supported by the NFT market cell definitely. So for someone of high value, like I was actually funny enough, but out of pure circums like circumstance, I was looking at Samsung's new like picture TV, I think it's called. We're like they made the construction of the TV actually look like like a beautiful picture frame that you can you can do. You have options on how you have that picture frame. So and then a bet TV has a particular APP or like a mode called picture mode, which then rotates through whatever pictures you put on it, or there's a store, of course, but like you can imagine that that's just something that people have on their wall and this is beautiful, like up to seventy five inch TV with an incredibly good picture quality of our and and instead of me choosing a piece of art, I can buy a frame and then choose the art based on the mood I'm in. Can rotate through things, I can then make it. I can then just become like a passive curator of art that I care about and probably at least make my money back or make a profit on reselling it in a market whenever the time is right. Like that's something that, like, even is like just a passive person, would probably interest a lot of people. And I don't think that up until we have the ways to actually use these things does it become clear that, oh, nfts are a thing and actually useful outside of like speculative markets and people like and like people like. When you read the news about nfts or people questioning it it, it's usually negative or like why? And then then you look at just the art industry in general and most people ask why they're too and it's been. It's clear that it's a serious industry where people love stending a lot of time and money at. Oh yeah, and and the the social aspect and some of the tech x best goes nuts, because not only could you curate it yourself, but keep in mind that's an internet connected, API connected thing. You could curate your art based on the weather and when it's rainy, it shows dark pieces when it's like there's so many options and there's so many hybrid markets to that integrate with the traditional art market. I've seen one to one pieces cell you broke up their wonder one piece is sell there. Look looks like I'd lost you for just a moment, but I was talking about the the hybrid markets where I've seen nfts that have sold on superher that actually come with a physical copy, like an artist has painted a physical painting, scanned and extremely high resolution version of it, made that an n of t and then when the collector bought it, they mailed them the painting or or some you know some of the unique experiences in VR or R or the metaverse. Things you can buy as an nft that you can see in d jackets and stuff that you can wear in a video game. There's so many cool models for this actually a comment regarding that. Somebody's watching live ready what we already said her a lot of a lot of excitement from people. We're BACCA. Yes, says yes, the digital the advent of digital canvases displaying a collection will elevate the look beyond the electronic show room style of te it's gains. Of course it will, and the digital canvasses will be galleries in the metaverse. Throw on your your Oculus or your magically for your whatever and go look at something cool. Go look at a you know, even even the buildings in the metaverse as themselves that you could walk into in virtual reality can be art in and of themselves, because you can design just about anything. I think what would be really the next step for those kinds of things are for simple ways. Maybe it's a wallet connecting but, like you know, you have your wallet in your phone, you have your NFP's somewhere and then and that, or maybe it's just grab an address and you can just plug it in somewhere, but having that really smooth integration to be able to showcase it, because you know there was in the early two thousands. We all remember those picture, you know, the digital picture friends. They didn't go do too well because the low resolution and then people would just unplug them and then they just didn't want them on. And because the the screens. We go the screens are way better now, you know, they're like they can be on for a longer period of time at a and they're much more efficient as a as a as a thing. So this kind of stuff is totally like possible and like just being able to just, you know, you jump into R and now you're sharing your you know, maybe it's a public art gallery and you plug in, you know, you find your little space and plug in your address and you know your and everyone's sharing their art and stuff like that, and it's just a conversation space like the those are those conversation spaces are already happening, you know, in Vr and then to you know,...

...we see them kind of purpose built for events, but for it to become more commonplace, I think is is is like a very real thing, and especially with, you know, barger and larger influencers getting involved in the NFT space. You know, their wish to showcase their art. You know, there might be an obviously they had it could be because they some of it they're really proud of. I mean you saw that that lazycom or whatever by by by Mark Hubans. So just turned into way to showcase your NPT's. You know. I mean, on one hand, yeah, I'm he has a you know, you they would have a an economics incentive to do so. They want to maybe be able to sell a view their Keis, but the ones that they think are just cool and they don't think they're going to make a profit on, they still want to be able to have a place to like look at them. That's that's interesting, you know. So those kinds of behavior sets. Is just a matter of having the infrastructure that's simple for people to use and and making it popular for people to do it that way. And that's only just going to drive the market further. I mean, in my painon on that tangent to I think the markets getting maybe not as me it's might. Maybe not quite there now, but it's definitely going to get to where you will see niches pop up within that space to with like eating compatible art and eating screens where it's all black and white and the maker you could have specific products just for about to where it's like because because those are ultra efficient to they're very low power. They can be battery powered much more easily for a lot longer, and I think you'll see a little niches pop up like that based on the technology limitations and the adaptability of whatever types of art to that type of screen. Interesting. Shifting to a bit more of a technical question, and since you're in charge of infrastructure for quite a bit, how how does super rare feel about the proliferation of other chains and layer twos? Are you dedicated to staying on like layer one, or how do you how do you navigate even evaluating whether or not you should try and either move or like go across and be on multiple chains? I think part of that. What I'll say is we definitely watch the space like we're heavily involved in the blockchain community and all of us are blockchain enthusiast to some degree or another. We are always aware of the new technologies and things popping up. The market's going to dictate a lot of that and it's going to dictate whether because, like you know, if you have a there are other technologies that are popping up on the etherium blockchain that are made that make things with nfts possible that are already on etherium like in. That'll that'll that'll always be a consideration. There are better, newer, Shinier things, and whether or not they see mass market adoption or whether or not we allow a hybrid platform will be more on the demands of what artists and collectors need then on. You know, our own personal opinions at this point in time and economics that definitely dictate that. To write. Like, we have status. Felt this pretty heavily, but are like the cost of a what we would consider an atomic the standard atomic transaction of a status user is significantly lower than someone who's buying and selling art, like rare art at that. Right. So you may be like an industry like yours, if you, if you stay into the rare art industry, may be more resilient to something like higher transaction fees or than something like a micro transaction model. Right. But then again, like there may be use cases of NFTS that allow for like that, that demand small streaming of pain. Its like that that we had, like no one's could come up with yet, which then may move the market and then your decision backing. Thank yourus about like how that evolves over time. Like what use case is for NFTE's and art and like market places of art have we not thought about yet? That may blow up. If you have any like weird things that have come up in the process of people like talking to you a superher I mean I lately have been. You know, if you're looking at different protocols and things, I think the art market in general, and keep in mind like we're not funding the gas fees or anything like that. We're just we're sort of the facilitator of the contracts in the market...

...place and all that. So we aren't as concerned about the gas fees and stuff like that on a theium right now because they aren't so astronomically high that the market isn't tolerating it, because, you know, the art has pretty high prices anyways and it tends to be a small number compared to the sale prices. The collectors seem to have no problem paying the for the art and the artist seem to have no problem getting enough royalties to make a profitable business for themselves, and that is definitely a consideration. But you know, an you have ethtpot no coming down the pipe with proof of of work instead of or there's proof of stay, a proof of work. I've I've now seen proof of authority and being trialed, and there's a lot of things coming down that pipeline that we just don't know where they're going. So it's always open to new technologies. That makes sense. You know it, and we try and stay openminded. Like we'll get a little technical here, because this is a technical podcast. Like one of the things I'm trying to build as I'm trying to build off of containerisation. So this would be things like Google, cloud run, Amazon elastic containers and stuff like that, where we can abstract away some of the infrastructure needs and focus on secure doctor container micro services that do one sort of specialized thing that are easy and and like make it. It makes us a little more agile because we're abstracting the way a lot of the management headaches of traditional infrastructure and even of like, let's say, coubernatis itself. So I'll take cloud run is an example, which is actually coupernateis. It's just Google managed, Gubernatis over native, and that's you know, this space really lends itself well to stuff like that too, which is I find cool, because I'm an infrastructure DORC right now, which is like it's like as as sort of one person helping all of the developers out and floating in between. I can build feature environments and I can build some of these cool things on top of just containers and I don't literally don't have to manage servers. It's amazing. I just have to manage doctor containers and health software flows into containers and gets deployed, which is really cool. But and, and this's what it's just it's it's a partially a consequence of being on the blockchain, and that being about, you know that that being let's say, half half the infrastructure. All the transactions are happening on atherium. It's a network. It's not something we're building, it's something we're contributing to and it's something kind of magical. Honestly, I kind of so we may want to help illucidate this because my opinion, like the naive view of what a company, whatever blockchain company is, is a group of smart contract developers and website right like. So when you talk about managing infrastructure for company, like Super Rare. What is that back in, like what is that? What is all the stuff that people don't think about when they think about a blockchain company and in this in the type of things that you have to maintain in a responsible for or like what is the risk associated with that? What is the risk? Is Super are bears in terms of infrastructure? Like, what happens if you go away? Right? Yeah, it's a great question. You know, we're pretty comfortable with where that's out because if we go away, the contracts still exist. They exist on the existing protocols and like I kind of like, like there's very little risk to collectors or users othering that not being able to publish on that same contract in the future because the contracts wills continue to function. The technologies there on chain. It's distributed, it's not centralized, and like it actually doesn't matter. So, like we have a heavy focus on, obviously the security side of things, because we're dealing with financial transactions and like our biggest focus is to keep those contracts as is tightly knit as we can to. We you know, we send them to more than one third party for a for auditing with an independent view, and we're very careful as to features and things we roll out and the technologies that power those and we're careful with the way those transactions happen. But like we are also using web three douto technologies here. We're using while a connect, using that a mask. We're using these things so that the transactions are happening away from US too, and we can abstract away some of the risk by not never handling the actual financial we're only handling the details of the financial transactions and the addresses going into the contract. We're never signing anything, because I've also worked in an environment where we are holding wallets and we are holding lots of Tokens and we are issuing tokens and we are issuing user wallets and encrypting things and signing things and it's a much different animal. I like the web free...

...douto distributed model a lot better. Well then, you also mentioned that for maintaining your own IPFs known at least act as a pointer for storage of the image itself that connects to the address. Yeah, and we're trying to keep that as distributed as possible to there are other alternatives to Ip of us that we have considered, and I again won't really specultn't will actually do in the future, but I think we're pretty happy with the sut up we have right now. It's one of those situations where, like, in terms of the IPFs situation, like there's always a sister's like a problem with persistence, and someone has to care about a given item that's stored on IPFs or referred to be there, and so that usually means someone's pinning it, like guess the terminology for it right, which means that, like, yeah, I'm holding it, it's mine, and then I'll make sure that anybody who wants it knows that they can reach it from me, and then the more people that do that, the usually the lower the lacy of retrieving that given file is. And that is basically based on your infrastructure currently, unless someone decides to do that, because there's no incentives to do it other than someone wants to retrieve their artwork or like you want to maintain a high, high level of quality, its quality service to the people who are minting in a tease in your platform. So hopefully maybe one day there's just as robust solution that has stronger guarantees around persistence so that in the event that you do go away and for some reason you're ATPFS, don't stops working, those things are still there, regardless of like I'm I think that's this the goal of web three companies in a lot of ways, is you don't need us, like in the in the event that we go away or like our like organization are physical, like group of people decides to dissolve or something. You can still do this and the things that you've done in the past are going to go away too, and that's something that I think that, like is a very unique proposition to an end user that traditional companies have a hard time doing, because most of the time the maintenance or upkeep of a given product relies on the company just to exist. And hopefully that, like if you structure were through company in such a way that a company can just disappear or like they don't even need to be there in the first place for like you to do buy a product from them, participate on the platform and never have to care whether or not they exist. It's adding value to the users, a att in convenience to the users. It's adding community that users. Is a huge focus on community here too, and the social aspects and stuff like that, because, like, it's really about the the art, the artist, the conversations and the space and it's less about like the the will we be around in fifty years or those types of things. And I'll even speak directly, more directly to the IPFs stuff. Yes, we're pinning that. But one of the Nice things about the art space in particular is it isn't those low value transactions of high fees. It's high value transactions, which means if you have very technical collectors, very technical artists, they are also motivated to host IPFs nodes and pin those things to make latency close to them, you know, more ideal for the viewing their own art and stuff like that. And and it is a distributed technology and it doesn't rely suly on us, but we can contribute to the space, we can contribute to the etherium space, we can contribute to all of these things to make everything better for everyone, and I think we all love that. And on the other side of the flip side of IPFs, the you know, the motivation and IPFs being I want people to see this and more people hopefully want people to see this. Is the the pay to play game. Your you know your are, we've your file coins, stuff like that, but there is sometimes a high cost associated with that, but it is more motivating for all of the nodes to keep it if there's again, financial incentive involved. So it's a space where watching. It's a space we highly care about. We care about being a blockchain and distribute in all that stuff and, like I said, we're very happy with our set up right now, but we're always, always going to consider new things, see how the market evolves and see what becomes both financially feasible, prudent and all of them. Where do you see this going, like, where do you see all the kind of in FT space evolving to? Like how does it? How does it then melt into the other stuff people are doing? Does like did you have like he's like you just did hear and wonder and what I think about these things? And if you do, like, like, what are your thoughts on it? Like this isn't about necessarily super are just like yeah, it if he's in general, I think it's such a it's such a cool space and there's so many of these distributed technologies...

...popping up and I think, you know, you never really know what a market's going to look like till it evolves. But, like, I constantly wonder about weird stuff. I had a thought the other day. I was talking about House deeds the other day and like what if, like what he could even get a hybrid project some day where you have like, let's Say San Francisco decides to put deeds on the etherory, on blockchain and respect that or something like. They passed the laws necessary to do that. You can have historical houses passing ownership that are also art projects in and up themselves and come attached with nfts and other projects and things that are like a package deal. Like there's really weird niche use cases that can totally evolve and I think somebody somewhere is going to come up with some really cool ones that will surprise us. How Far Away do you think, indeed, developers and or TRIPLA developers are, we are, from really adopting NFP's? I think, if I'm going to give my personal opinion here, I'm going to give it thirty to fifty years overall for the space to really really mature and be a mainstream thing, as younger kids get more, will say, indoctrinated into the digital technologies and stuff like this and it becomes a way of life and the the older generations who don't care or don't think about it kind of disappear. I think it'll be super, super mainstream definitely in twenty to thirty years here. But that's that's my own personal speculation and it's probably totally wrong, I think. I think some of the things we're doing status may knock that number down a little bit, but that's that's me being biased. I would hope it is because, like, some of these technologies are amazing and they have such cool use cases, even less like, you know, signing. You know, so you take like Meta mask or whatever, when you connect it to super, you connect wallet connect or whatever, you get a prompt to sign things, to sign in. Like I love our signing system. There's no there's no user named Password Combos, there's no two factor authentication stuff. It's all crypto. You have to sign this to sign in and like, I haven't seen any in the security space. I haven't seen any reports of users who have two factor authentication on being successfully hacked. Like passwords, you can guess, but you be keys are are a much different animals. Signatures of signatures with digital crypto wallets. Yeah, minds plugged in right now and like signatures with digital wallets and things. They're they're you know, unless unless you get fished out of your your keys. They're almost impossible for most people to crack right now and I think we'll see a lot of the web three auto stuff evolved into the security in the log in space for actual users to once once that becomes less niche and like the you know, there's a lot of niche people in the NFT and cryptospace using web free and web wallets and stuff like that. While it connects there on a lot of like facebook. You know, your average facebook user doesn't really have a metamsk wallet on their phone. They don't have a ledger APP that consign into wallet connect with a physical device. Don't have these things and they don't know they exist or how to use them yet. But once that picks up and we see the education happen, I think we'll see a lot of that be adopted. Yeah, I can conquer crid agree more. I mean I've said a thousand times on the various podcasts that I've been on that like one of the most important things that we've done with blockchain and web three is get a bunch of cryptographic keys in the hands of a bunch of people and in a myriad of ways and getting them adapted to using them, whereas PGP fail pretty miserably at that. Right with game of fight in a lot of ways, or like marketized the concept of people using cryptographic keys and new schemes that allow them to kind of authenticate themselves and just stressically more secure ways, as opposed to password one, two three and password one, two three verses, you know, just push this button and just put this just just push this button, is way more secure and way, way easier to use, even you don't have to remember you don't have to use a password manager like this. Is a lot of positive things about that experience, as long as there's enough education not to let people get fished because, like I've seen it on super are there's a couple of artists and a couple of collectors that I've seen fall victim to fishing schemes that I have reported their their keys being stolen for one reason another. You know, somebody said they were going to give them an offline business contract and all this stuff and it ended up being a very, you know, highly advanced and like those things happen. So like that education also has to happen along...

...with it, because resetting the trade additional accounts for most websites is a lot easier than we're setting cryptographic things that are already on chain and UN signed and stuff. They're just kind of lost and that is a that is one small downside to the difference and in the new systems, but you gain something like to sign into webtory is substantially just faster. It's amazing. It's just so much less friction to do so well, I think that's a decent way to wrap up the do you want to let people know kind of for to find you and super rare and then learn more? Yeah, absolutely, and again, thank you, guys for for hosting and talking to me. I have a blast. You can find me on social media at RYM COEL on most social media platforms superhers, now super arecom. I actually one of my first task superher was getting rid of the DOTCO and switching over to thecom. You can find super are on most social media at super are and I look forward to seeing all of you online on social media and in the metaverse. Thank you. You and all of those links are happen to be in the description because I guess. So Nice. Good job, mate. I'll thank you for coming on the show and I look forward to seeing you guys grow, Nope, from thank you also to Jay for for coming into the cohost well, thank you for having me and talk to you soon, I'm sure. Yeah, absolutely. If you guys want to talk in the future, I'm available.

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