Hashing It Out
Hashing It Out

Episode 81 · 1 year ago

Hashing It Out #81- Unstoppable Domains Brad Kam

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Unstoppable Domain is a crypto blockchain domain company and browser maker that connects users to .crypto domain names on the Ethereum blockchain. These human-readable domain names allow users to be able to connect any cryptocurrency address to receive payments or to establish a censorship-resistant website.

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Now into its work. Welcome tohashing it out, a podcast where we talked to the tech innovators behind blockedin infrastructure and decentralized networks. We dive into the weeds to get at whyand how people build this technology the problems they face along the way. Comelisten and learn from the best in the business so you can join their ranks. Welcome back to another interview of hashing it out, as always, onyour host start, Cory Petty, and today we're talking about unstoppable domains andwe brought on Bradley Cam Co founder of the platform, to help us,help walk us through an answer questions that I may have about what unstoppable domainsis and what it seeks to do and how it differentiates itself. So,Bradley, welcome the show. Why don't you start off by doing the normalthing, telling us kind of how you got into the space and and reefinureus to what unstoppable, unstoppable domains is? We're sure. Thanks, thanks forhaving me. So I got into the CRYPTO space I moved to SanFrancisco in two thousand and twelve in order to work on a marketing software company, nothing to do with crypto. But I moved into a Bitcoin Hacker Housecalled twenty mission in San Francisco and it was like thirty people. They wereshooting horror movies when I first moved in there, because the building was likefalling apart and like basically not it didn't actually look like real residence were there. There was a call to the police at one point saying there were abunch of squatters there and we're like no, we're actually playing rent. It waskind of crazy. But the second the second bitcoin exchange in the USwas launched in our basement. Pretty much everybody there was working on a ona crypto project of some kind. Couple years later of it all, Igave a talk in our courtyard before theory and even launched. So I wasfortunate. I moved to San Francisco and I basically just fell down the rabbithole. Maybe maybe two or three weeks after I got there, thought Kryptowas the coolest thing I've ever seen and started playing with it, buying it, playing around with ideas and just kind of couldn't stop thinking about it eversince then. How, how the world did you fall into that house?I had a I was very fortunate. I had a good friend who hadwho had just moved there. He had been living this relatively relatively nice lifein the Richmond. He broke up with his girlfriend and moved into this place. I think it's like the eight or ninth person there, and he wasthe only person I knew in San Francisco. So he said come here, soI did. Yeah, funny how that works out. Sometimes. Thinkat the right spot of the right time. Actually, I think a lot ofpeople that I've interviewed that have been around for a very long time it'skind of got a similar start. It's like I just happened to be inthe right spot, the right time or on the right people and was interestedby the tech and here I am. It's it's pretty wild because it doesneed to you know. I mean it sounds so improbable, crypto does,and so it does. You know, to some extent it does sort ofrequire or it's helpful if you know, if somebody somebody advocates, and sothat happened to me and then I read the White Paper and kind of wentdown that that normal path and here we are. Let's let's talk about onstopple domains, like why? Why? A naming system or what is what? First off, what is unstoppable domains like? How does it work?Was it too? Yeah, so inside couple domains is a domain registry.We're similar to like ACOM, except for our domain registries are on blockchains.They are not part of the traditional DNS system. Domains are part of smartcontracts and they're stored inside of your wallet...

...with your private key. So,for example, we have DOC crypto registry and domains our ear seven twenty onetokens. So you store them inside of your ethereum wallet and currently you areset up to be work with both the ZILICA network and etherium. So ifa dot sale and DOC crypto top level domain that people can register domains under, does that meat? Is it so UNDILA? Are you still using theHerc twenty one standard and and and it's like whatever smart contracting in momentations onZelica. So we have a separate registry, Dod zill on the Zillica blockchain andthe way, the best way to think about it is that the blockchainis your or asset registry. And then so you're issuing domain names on theblockchain and then you're attaching records just like you would like a DNS record toyour domain name, but you're writing that record to the blockchain and then peopleare using the blockchain as the source to go and look up the record associatedwith your domain name. So if you have a traditional domain name, youtype it in, you hit you go through a theories of paths and theneventually you get the the DNS. The DNS servers will give you the appropriaterecord. Here you just go read the etherium blockchain or the Zilica blockchain andyou find the record. So it's replacing the DNS servers with the blockchain aslike your public database. Yeah, I have a ton of top of thingsare can go into here. Hopefully we can get all of them. Psychewe I guess we're luckily enough. I think we've had tyesshoon from name base, which is the handshake like a basically the interface to the handshake, oneof the interfaces to the handshake protocol to register hs domains, which are whichis a way to do decentralized top level domains. This isn't necessarily the samehere, but it's sort of the same vein of of a naming system andthe routing associated with how computers do look ups with human, human readable text, to something that's not necessarily human readable or not easily human human readable,and then applying us that to those things. Is is a very interesting and hardproblem, especially when you try to add sence or supersistence, like why, why build a new one when we have something like Ns for Atheroium?Yeah, it's a good question. So we the first the first demo productthat we ever built was a registrar for Daddy's. So we were inspired byDuddyth. We love the project and the thought was that we wanted to trydifferent things with a registry, stress registry strategy. So we had a coupleof a couple of innovations that we thought were missing from the marketplace. Oneof those was that domain names don't need subscriptions. So if you buy adomain name, you own it forever. There's no subscription. And the reasonwhy we wanted to eliminate subscriptions is because there have been issues where the registrycan raise prices or even potentially raise prices to such a point that you wouldlose the domain name. So we thought that the concept of subscriptions was introducinga potential potential censorship risk whereas if you own your domain name forever, itdoesn't actually matter what happens to unstopple domains anymore. So once you have oneof our domain names, you don't need to care about the health or wealthof unstoppable domains again. You all you need to care about is the etheriumblockchain, essentially. So that's one thing. We also introduce this concept of multicurrency payments. This hadn't existed previously,...

...where the way it works is isthat I have my crypto domain and I can attest my Bitcoin, mytheorium, my light Cooin, all my crypto addresses to this one domain andthen you can pay me inside of wallets. So right now this works inside oftrust wall, at my ether wall, at my crypto many others where youcould pay me in dozens of different currencies, all to Brad Doc cryptome, and this is something that didn't exist until we built it. So wehave a lot of respect for duddy than we include them in our tools,but we had some some new ideas that we wanted to introduce into the marketand we think that the market is better for that now that there's now thatthere's kind of two versions, but you don't really need to choose tools tendto support both of us. Why not? We're pretty early in this space andreally it's really much more about trying to provide an alternative to DNS.Absolutely, I kind of. I was just curious about kind of the differentiatingfeatures we fuent on stoppable doveins like, like you said, the kind ofpay anything with. How does that work? Is that like an integration with thecitualized exchanges, or are you routing to various keys? How does someonesend how what's the mechanism and which someone sends payment to, say, courtPatty Dot Crypto, and it goes and and it's automatically routed based on theassets that's sent. So it's actually really it's really simple. What's happening isyou are as signing a message with the private key that controls the domain name, in your writing, the address of the blockchain. So if you wereto look up Brad Doc crypto on the blockchain, you would see BETC equalsaddress, LTC equals address, etc. And so a wallet, when Itype in Brad do Crypto, a wallet reads the Blockchain, Finds The associatedaddress and drops it into the sin field. So if I'm in trust wallet andI type in Brad Doc crypto into the BTC field, it knows togo and grab my betc address. Same thing if I go into like whenfield. So it's really just a look up, a look up on theblockchain, and the etherium blockchain is acting as your your public database. Lookups are free. So okay, very so the client is still responsible forcrafting the appropriate transaction depending on the asset. Yeah, but all they're doing isis they're making a request to the Chin itself. That's a great registerto find information and based on an individual and the addresses they'd like to bepaid at for various for whatever whatever they want. What what else is availableoutside of like what kind of records can you add to a specific domain?So the idea is is that, is that the two primary use cases rightnow are payments and websites. So you can attach, you know, anycryptocurrency address. That's for the payments use case, but you can also attachyour IPFs Hash for your website. And so one of the other things thatI think is you know, I think one of the other things that wefocused on a lot as a company that I think we felt with somewhat missingfrom the market previously are tools to make this stuff easy, so unstoppable.DOMAINSCOM is like a new version of a registrar where you can, inside ofour Ui, go and add addresses, sign a message with your private keyand write crypto addresses to the blockchains. So you can set up your domainin this way. You can also attach your IPFs Hash. There's also toolsto, with a couple of clicks and a little editor, launch your ownIPFs website very easily. We have an extension where you can view doc cryptowebsites and dozeo websites inside of Google chrome. So it's this sort of broader toolset of things to make all of this stuff easy. Let's kind ofget back down to the websites, to the web to. What do youactually write to your domain name? It's crypto addresses and Hashes for detention decentralized storage. Okay, great, that's kind of like I'm tooling. Isdefinitely something I want to get into here...

...because, like one, congratulations onthe recent announcement of the partnership with opera, them them facilitating resolving doc crypto addresseswithin within the search bar. That's that's fantastic, because one of themain barriers of entry is popular tooling that people use that they don't understand,really understand. It's just what's available to them allowing them to get access tothis space, that having to download a bunch of extensions, like like nativeintegration, of these things that make it to that make went three discoverable,and it's things like that that definitely help people access this content without having toadd a bunch of steps. Right do like that feels like doing the samething with a bunch of steps, and so I guess. I guess withsomething like an Opera Integration or native integration, they just type in your name,Dot Crypto or, I'm assuming you do subdomains too. Is that correct? Yeah, subdomains are subdomains are supported and and the real idea. Sooperas eighty million. It's only on android so far, but it's still eightymillion monthly active users. So this is yeah, so this is the youknow, this is kind of the biggest step forward, I would say,for the decentralized web so far. This is the biggest opening up for younative essentialized web experience, and so you can go in right now. Youcan type in my ether Wallad Dot Crypto and you can interact with the fullmy ether Wallad application on the decentialized web. You can type it into the upperbrowser. You can also go to Khyber Doc Crypto and you can interactwith the Chiro protocol and do decentralized exchange. These are the types of things that, you know, make the decentialized website powerful. Like these are theseare apts that are attempting to be censorship resistant, but they previously had thisthis DNS or this this Amazon web services problem. They don't have to havethose problems anymore. Yeah, that it's of an issue with more many conversationsthat have had with people who are building alternative naming systems outside of Dns,is that how do you get people to queery the right name servers, toget reserve, to get to get whatever they're using to resolve correctly, rightbecause, like say, for instance, you use your standard is isp givenname service, it's a regular DNS name server and you want to queery thisstuff, your browser is going to be like, I don't know, thatis it's nothing. So you don't get anything back and so you have tohave that additional tooling and infrastructure available, readily available, so that any anybodywho's interested could just type in the address and it resolves appropriately. Until thathappens, it's relegated to the enthusiasts like me and you to run our ownname servers to, you know, download extensions and do it for our friendsand families or do also for our friends and family, and it's that's beena very large barrier. Eventry, since it's the birth of all of thistechnollogy, is the infrastructure and tooling associated with getting people to use it quicklyeasily. I agree. I agree. I think it's a huge problem.I think the thing that has been really positive, though, that we've seenfrom the market is that browsers are already looking at this stuff. You know, we've seen a lot of browsers in a great etherium, for example.We've seen a lot of them looking at IPFs. So we've seen them tryingto trying to get these networks plugged into their software, even for other reasons, you know. So like opera, for example. They started with awallet. That was their first focus and then, okay, we'll be alreadyreading the theorium blockchain. Wow, it's actually not going to be that muchharder to also resolve, resolve websites. Yeah, but for anyone who's spentany reasonal amount of time trying to query the blockchain and pull information from it, it kind of sucks. It's not fun. Ja Jason RPC is notamenable to caching. We have services like, if you're a cloudflare running proxies thatrun a bunch of kind of middleware...

...to help make that look up faster. But it's kind of going back in the direction of centralization. Are yousee any improvements with this infrastructure and tooling in the space coming up that thatmoves away from this kind of I don't want to call of centralization risk,but definitely it's there's their centralization in terms of how people access information, notnecessarily where the inform range of store. Sure I think this is and Iwould say that just in general. You know, philosophically, like you know, we think that people should be people should be looking up stuff directly onthe blockchain, that it's not it's not ideal to have those types of thosetypes of things in the middle but at the same time I also think thatthe world is likely going to have a lot of different versions simultaneously, youknow. So just like you know, we've got bitcoin. It censorship resistant. You know, a lot of us, you know, store bitcoin with ourown private key, but some of us, for reasons of convenience orother things like that, might use a custodian for some portion or whatever forsome period of time. That doesn't negate all the value of Bitcoin, andI think the same as kind of true for a lot of these these gatewayslike it may be that what you're going to want to have is you're goingto want to have some IPFs, you're going to want to have some levelof distribution cross Ip ifs nodes to make sure that your content is fully distributed. But not everybody with an IPFs node in their browser actually looking up thecontent directly themselves. They might use a gateway for feeding convenience, but theyknow that even if that gateway we're to go down, they still have amaybe a clunkier but still censorship resistant backup. So I think there's just a lotof different versions of the world that can coexist. But we are veryexcited about this idea of of, for example, people having IPFs nodes insideof their browsers and we actually launched our own browser as kind of a demofor the market that has an IPFs note inside of it. If you wereto go to, you know, Brad Doc crypto and you like my website, you can, with one click, turn on the node and store andshare that website to the network. So basically, the more popular my websiteis, the more people are fans of it, the more decentialized it becomes. And you IDFs. Not so you've made a browser. Continue, giveme some details on the the text stack of this browser, because it's runninga note inside of it, which means that, like, if I goon to website Brad Dock Crypto, which is not which is as sensibly,the IPFs Hash, and I retrieve that thing, I can then pin itmyself to the increase its availability across the IPFS network, and that's that's athat's a massive thing that needs to be done, because reliability of information acrossa on incentivized network, because foll coin is not launched yet, is verydifficult. You can't unless you pin it yourself. And then what's what's what'sthe reason? Right? So you need more accessible content to give you betterdata viability, which is something like what you just said. Browsers that havenodes in front of them and based on people liking them, sharing with theburden of hosting those things or increase in there availability across the network. Hetalked about what that browser is and how's built. Yeah, so it's ait's your chromium fork and we just, we just it's a no, it'sopen source. Anybody is. Anybody is free to for get play with thebuild off of it. We're not attempting to be a browser company. Thiswas meant to be kind of a developer tool and an example to the browsermarket. So we we built an IPFs node inside, inside there, andthen really the only other feature that we introduced was this idea of the voluntarythe voluntary pinning, and we were trying to show that there there are otherdynamics besides pure monetary incentivization to incentivize content...

...to get on a lot of differentnodes. And we're already seeing content creators that we're talking they were talking with, wanting to offer this where, for example, they might say like,you know, here's my video and have like here's my like decentralized. Youknow, Youtube, because you two has been having all these issues recently wherethey've been taken down. Crypto creators, where they can put their content upon the centralized web and they can charge for it. But maybe if you, if you're willing to be a node and serve that up, then youget a discount or you get it free or whatever. So there's all kindsof interesting ways to create incentives that don't necessarily require, you know, paythis node, you know, ten cents or whatever. Yeah, that's that'spersonally speaking, I work for a company that is actively looking into building outyour services and making get the backbone of our network, right having having aweb throe, a desktop web through browser and wallet and so on and soforth, as part of the mainstay of what we're trying to do, andso I would like, I I'll probably be looking at to see how it'sdone and ask me your questions outside of this. But like, how doyou I feel like having a registry that has so much linked to it asa few potential Gotcha's in terms of how that information is used and who controlsit at what points? Like you, that the unstoppable domains definitely gives anin situation that people can't take it down there's a large amount of sister shippersistence. Are there weak points and this like, what's the process of purchasinga domain? At what point is it mine and no one else can takeit and no one else can manipulate it, take it back for me or oror change the records that I have associated with it. So you've gottwo steps. You've got purchase and then you've got claim. And so inthe span of two minutes you can buy the domain and then claim it toyour wallet. Ones. That transaction is going through on the etherium blockchain andyou have the domain in your wallet. That's it. Nothing unstoppable domains cando. That's a near see what you're tooken in my wallet. That isno longer a part of the platform, E. S. seven twenty onetoken. Yeah, sorry, what did I say? Twenty ish? Yeah, definitely not that. Definitely not that. Yes, your seven, seven twentyone. These are none when able tokens, and so your your typicallyusers are storing them inside of Meta mask, but some users use like the DABbrowsers, which have good Ui for for nft's, you know. Solike Quinn baseball at trust will at there's several several others. That are great, but that's what we encourage. So basically, once you bought the domain, you put it inside of a self custody while it hopefully one that youalready use and are comfortable with, and that's it. It's yours. Allright, great, and then you have to you can basically use the contractsthat are on board to then look up the registrations and resolve whatever's associated withit. Yeah, and and those don't depend on us either. Those arethose are on the blockchains. The registries already on the blockchain. Anyone canjust go and read the blockchain, find the records. If you, theuser, wrote those ret you know associated those specific records with your domain name, that's your choice. Anybody can read it. That's their choice. I'mcurious about the associated risk with that registry, and in two ways. One issomething I already alluded to, which I could back tore in a second. Other one is the control and security profile of that registrate. Like,let's take, for instance, the parody book, a parody multisick book,where, like the all the all the multisicks were worked great, but thelibrary that they depended on got newt and which basically locked away all that either, as there's such a situation where, say, the controller of the registratecan new get change owner ship, change the change it. Can it beself destructive so that the registry goes away,...

...which thus like locks away all thevalue associated with it? It's impossible, and we did. We built itin such a way that that is impossible, because we didn't. Wethe whole point here was to deliver a product that was a censorship resistant domainname, and so we build it in such a way that it really doesnot matter what we decide to do with the registry. The one thing wecan do at the registry is we can turn it off in the sense thatit can't mint new domains. That is a power that we have in casethere was some issues, but it's still doesn't change what happened to existing domains. There are several hundred thousand domains out there. There is nothing we cando, even if we were to turn off future minting, which is somethingwe would only do in extreme cases if we thought there was a bug orwhatever else, but even that doesn't affect users that already have domain names.And so that was that was by design, because that gone through any type ofsecurity audit to help to help give some more confidence and reassurance around thoselike security guarantees. I'm a security engineer, so I think about these things,not stop. Sorry, totally. They're great quatons and we we hadmultiple security audits. We have one professional one that was that we published andwe're happy to happy, to happy to share that sort of stuff. Thatcorrect. So we have myself, yeah, partly because I'm interested. I justlike looking at these things. Another one is because, like, Iwork for products that would like to implement stuff like this, and so weneed to before implementing anything into our product, I need to make sure that,like, the users of what we do can safely integrate this feature intowhat and allow them to start using it and not really have any worries aboutwhether or not that feature will ever not work as intended. You know whatI mean. And so, like, I asked these questions not for notonly for myself, but for anyone who's thinking about trying to integrate something likeonsoppable the mains that like once it's there's and then their wallet it's there's inthe their wallet. I think it's super important. It's a super important questionbecause I think one of the things that you would ask yourself as a developeris is, you know, how future proof is the system? You know, can I you know, can I rely on it in five years,ten years time whatever? So I think those are those are great questions.I think those are I understand why you wouldn't want to move forward without thosethings and we've we've found this as we've been working with wallets, that,you know, we do wind up going through a pretty serious security review,especially with the larger ones, where they're looking closely at the tech before they'rewilling to implement because, for for the same for the reasons you mentioned.I mean people are sending money with these things, people are, you know, building web presences like it's important stuff and they're relying on that look upto work as intended, especially if they're hosting critical infrastructure or popular sites.They don't want to make sure these things can't be rerouted to something else ortake it over, changed and so on, so forth, and so that havingthat type of guarantee which form my opinion, building naming systems like thisis, if done properly, inherently more secure than traditional ones because, likesigning certificates, you know, you get rid of CEA's, you get ridof all these like kind of ad hoc infrastructure that we've built that makes theInternet work today as it works, like with something that's natively using cryptography ina way that's particularly useful for proving ownership and maintaining assets. I mean,sea's are gone, custodians are gone, and the Custodian thing is quite abig deal. Like, you know, you can have you know, yourDNS. You you can have your DNS Registrar get hacked. You could havethem make an accidental update that causes an issue. They could, you know, react to a court order and show you down. There's so many differentand different ways that that system can fail...

...currently. So how do you canthese all to like, say, with something like main base, right,I sorry, like handshake, which is decentralized top level domain registrar. SoI can I can get like dot petty or Dot Cory or got whatever dothashing it out and then build subdomains and hierarchical subdomains on that. How howdo you get them to not make a doc crypto and then start fighting youfor that top level domain and the infrastructure that resolves it. I mean,I think in general naming systems have had this problem around collisions and I broadlyspeaking, the way that we should view it as a community is there's noreason to collide. There's only one five hundred traditional domain extensions out there.There's about for blockchain domain registries and it's not in anyone's interest to have collisions. And even worse, it would actually potentially harm millions of users who currentlycan send money using using doc crypto or Dod Zell Domains and they could potentiallysend it to the wrong address. So it would be a massive harm tomillions of crypto users if that were to happen. So I think that,you know, we're relying on the judgment, of course, of you know,of people who you know not do something that could be, you know, pretty socially destructive. But at the same time it's more about integrations.So your registry in this world, unlike DNS, you know, browsers justhook up. You know, browsers just read DNS servers. Browsers can getaccess to every registry. They don't need to really make any decisions, whereashear, what's happening is is browsers and wallets or deciding which registries are legitimate. And so that's a role that they they are now playing in this worldand they're only going to integrate with the ones that are perceived as legitimate becausethey have business risks. And now that we're in twenty plus wallets, operabrowser and more coming, it just won't make sense for applications to support ORTcolliding system which is, you know, sort of not anyone's benefit. BeWho's assuming that the principles are in check and I align appropriately. It behoovesinfrastructure and tooling to integrate with things that are used right because, like,ultimately we're doing things so that we're lowering to Barry, eventually making it moreuseful and providing the end user much easier time to do things than previously.So, like, like I said, assuming the fundamentals are in place,there's no reason why someone would want to try and do that outside of tryingto sabotage the system because they think it's doing something that shouldn't do. Andso that, I guess, that's your main risk. There is people perceivingunstoppability is bad, like they want come and so, like when you there'sthere's always kind of an open narrative of whether or not permissionlessness or like alack of control, was good. And I think that this is really justbecause is we haven't gone to the next step yet in terms of thinking abouthow permissionless systems actually play out in the market. And the whole thing thatwe're focused on is the idea that at the protocol level you can't have censorship. It has to be permissionless, and the reason why is because otherwise theentire system can get corrupted. Is the same reason why bitcoin needs to workthis way and a theory needs to work this way, because if you haveyour gatekeeper, that gatekeeper over time is going to limit what people can do. So you have to have the protocol...

...layer like this. But that doesnot mean that every application has to allow every crazy anarchic website, applicated whatever, to you know, just you know, to to essentially like, you know, collapse the social order. It doesn't mean that terrible, horrible,illegal, all kinds of things are going to be flooded all over our APPS. Because APPS are reading the blockchain right. APPS can say we don't want toread this record, this record is unethical. But the difference is isthat, so long as you do that at the second layer instead of thefirst layer, it means that there's not one answer. There's not a waylike there is with the current Dns, where you can just silence someone completely. If I believe that what I'm saying should be out there and other browsersagree with me, and browsers agree with me, even if it's only throughtwo percent, three percent five percent, then that information is going to getout there or people are going to read the blockchain themselves directly from their devicesor whatever like, putting it at the at the first layer and shares thatinformation that needs to get out can get out, but it doesn't prevent usfrom still filtering out most of the bad stuff that we actually object to anddon't want to to propagate itself. So this world is actually going to leavehaving this permissionless. This permissionlessness is actually going to lead us to a placewhere we're going to have a better internet, a better regulated Internet, then whatwe have right now, where facebook and Youtube essentially, in their ownwalled gardens or whatever, just decide what's okay and what's not. UN Don'ttell us how or why or what they're doing. Applications could share that.There could be like a warning list of domains associated with bad behavior and thatcould sit on the blockchain. It's kind of like like a Crypto effector CRYPTOSCAMDP does with a lot of the like a lot of the wall extensions.They share. Basically, if if you type in a certain address or domain it says, Hey, this has been flag for, you know,most just content, and it's like, you're right, I think you're right. I say this I follow the same ideology or narrative that you just mentioned, and that is the like the right to opt out. If you builta constraint system, of the more constrains you put into the foundational layer ofa system, the less you can build on top of it. And soif you build something that works, that doesn't have constraints at the very bottomand you can build whatever you want on top of it, with the optionto opt out if that thing ever turns into something you don't like or asif you do the opposite. It doesn't work that way exactly, and thisis the superpower of putting this information on the blockchain is that it is itis a gigantic public database in the sky that anybody can access and as aresult, you have this protection, like it's extremely accessible, but at thesame time you, as an application can just ignore a record. So it'sso easy for you as an application to say, like, I want thisinformation, I'm going to go get it, I'm going to show it, orI don't want to show this information, so I'm going to hide it orthrow a warning or whatever I'm going to do. Hey, Corey,yeah, what's your status? Rocking it? That's right, same here. Werock this shit. So, anyways, most people knows that is as aas a mobile APP for private, secure communication. Did you know that, core Oh, I do it. I'm the CSL. I'm pretty surehe had an inkling, oh, inkl like. So, yeah, justa little, a little bit of an inkling. So so what it doesis, and this is like news to a lot of you listening right now, it combines that the centralize the messenger, right, what's that mean? Themessaging is decentralized, a Crypto Wallt and a web three browser. That'sa lot of things in one APP,...

...cory, I how you guys pulledthat all? It's kind of hard, but in fact it's a lot morethan that. Right. It's the status is like really just a network ofprojects that builds infrastructure, like user level products and tools for dabt developers,all on kind of the web free stack, like the decentralization movement. For example. We so bimbus and that's to client right. That's like, youknow, infrastructure layer. It's specifically designed for resourcer stricted devices like mobile phones. Yeah, I got fact P top. That's your mother, your Modular MessagingProtocol for private communication. So like how these computers talk to each other, and you got em bark barks, like it's a framework of tools ora suite of tools that allows people to build growbus decentralized applications. Fact,another part get the key card. Key cards like a really, really financiallycheap but incredibly secure hardware wall right for contact, contactless, open source,a hard Wallt N in an API so that you can keep your key safelywhile not having to spend a bunch of money. Dude, I love thekey chrd because of like it just kind of plays on the fact that Ilike things that have small physical changes, that they give people to act differently, and that's one of the things crypto desperately needed. So hats off thestatus were recognizing that. So she. So not only do you get allthose amazing things with amazing names. Did y'all know Nimbus was the cloud thatgo cou rides around on? I don't don't if they knew that when theynamed it. That they are stuck with a lot of like cloud based thingsbecause the language that uses called them. MMM, what is Goku writes aroundon a cloud because you know, he can't fly faster from the speed ofsound or anything. So so not only do stance have all that stuff,it has more. All these projects are connected through a set of principles ina mission to creed sovereign, open socioeconomies through public goods. All right,sovereignty and transparency. Now any person or project can join the status network andtheir mission through contribution or funding. They just rolled out of the centralized kickstarterlike tool for project funding called a symbol assembly. Check all of it outand get involved at Status Networkcom. Yep. So go to status Networkcom and checkout all of the amazing things, be a part of it and backto the show. Well, let's talk about we definitely agree on that.We can talk to the cow'SCO home about kind of we can guess, WaxPoetic about about it all day long. Let's talk about some of the difficultiesyou face. What's what's hard about doing this and what's a barrier that youuse you see upcoming in the future of kind of continuing the expansion of unstoppabledomains and services like them? I think the biggest challenge is the integrations.I think the registry technology is a relatively small part. I mean it wasit was hard, it definitely, definitely spend a lot of time on it, but that's not the hardest part. The hardest part has been integrations andthe tools. So the integrations is to some extended bd problem, you know, presenting a kate partners, figuring out how to get them excited to embracenew technology. And I think on the integration side that means wallets, thatmeans browsers, that means search engines, it's a lot of stuff that needsto support it for us to get to a functioning internet similar to what wehave in the traditional world. And then...

...the other thing, I would say, the other category besides integrations, is just all the tools. So inthis traditional world, you know web building tools and application development tools. Thoseare all pretty good. You know, we've been doing this stuff for twentyfive years now. Whatever it is. There's, you know, all thisgreat stuff around word pressed. There's all this deploy tools that exist. There'sso much stop now it's not availability of tooling, it's choosing whichever fucking toolingyou want to use for a given job, because there's so many options, somany options, and it's not all stitched together in this way that makessense. It doesn't. It's not. It's not a developer user journey likelike it would be in the with the traditional Internet, where you say,I have this problem, and then this and then and then someone'll be ableto point you to a place where you can go and find, you know, tools to address that problem. Right now, it doesn't work that way. Things don't, things aren't stitch together yet. We don't. We don'thave the go daddy like experience where I buy a domain, I can easilylaunch a website or you know, whatever the you know kind of whatever thedeveloper equivalent is of that. We don't have those experiences yet, and thatjust requires a whole bunch of new stuff being built, a whole bunch ofstuff being applied to this world that already exists and stitching it all together.So I would put the two categories of things that are the biggest challenges isour integration partners, convincing the applications and tools, making it easy, becauseI think from the demand side, like people are pretty excited about this ideaof a decentralized web. I think that we're able to get a lot of, I would say most of the cryptical world, but even a lot ofpeople outside who you know, have either face censorship, and you talk mostpeople around the world, they have faced some sort of internet level censorship,domain level, you know, web posting level whatever, and so it's veryeasy to get people excited about trying this stuff. The problem is is likeonce, and I've had this conversation a hundred times, you know, withsomebody who is, you know, not really cry donative, and then theysay okay, well, how can I do it? And then we startexplaining how to do it, then they're like all, well, okay,come back to me a couple years. Yeah, yeah, and and honestly, just so everybody you know, your your your listeners, like, Ithink I can say this very candidly, I don't think that this stuff isquite ready for the outside world yet. I think it really is still inthe cryptocommunity phase. I think the cryptocommunity is is diving in head first.They're starting to build stuff. We're starting to see a lot of DAPS,you know, launch stuff on the escentralized web. But until we see thatmature, until we really see the cryptocommunity in it and using it, that'swhen we should expect it. It's going to then go out into the nextconcentric circle of, you know, dissidence or whomever else that you know,really absolutely need this stuff, but it's going to start with the crypto people. I think I agree with that. That's that's a reasonable outlook. Imean, if we're not using it ourselves so happy with this use case andand like make it really easy for us, then it's much, much harder forthe people outside of our domain expertise to latch onto it the way wedo it like a speaking of that, I a because integrations are so importantto you. You need people to use it, you need the tooling tobe more fluid, you need that uservas to be available and whatever kind ofapplications that are out there because the namings donating system is so integral to kindof the user experience and all assets. Right. What has what have youdone? What have you created to help facilitate applications integrating unstoppable domains into theirapplication? Well, it's been a combo of things. So one thing isjust developer docs, documentation for how to do it. That's on our that'son our website and we're getting the word out. We created a grant programwhere we're actually offering helping to subsidize the...

...development work for key applications. Tosupport this, we have a team of folks that are going out there andtalking to applications. But the last thing, and I think the thing that's probablythe most important, is user demand. So we have users who have beenbuying domains over the past year and there's been a little over two hundred, Twenty Tho domain registrations so far, and they want places to use theirwebsites. They're launching websites, they want to be able to see them places, they're sending money using their domains. They want well, it's to doit so like they have been asking for it and I think it's really theuser demand. That's been the thing that's been driving at the most and sowe've, you know, we focused on that. So I've been I wouldsay that all of those pillars are important, but actual user saying hey, Iwant this is really the thing that's the most powerful. Yeah, Ican definitely see that. How easy is it integrate, walking through the processof integrating selfle domains and to say a wallet or Web Free Browser? Yeah, so, I mean, if you're a wallet, all you're doing isyou are parsing this information. If I say so, I have if Isee a domain name and I identify that my user is in the Bitcoins Endfield, I need to make a request to the blockchain and say, is therea BETC address associated with this domain name? So I'm making a call to theblockchain and say is there? Is there a BETC address associated with thisdomain name? So I'm making a blockchain, a call to the theory in blockchain. Do ask that. So it's pretty simple. Applications have written theirown code to do this. We also have a library which is, youknow, even simpler. You can just you can just plug that in.What that's a few different ways job descript and the web. Your browsers basicallythe same thing. It's someone in puts a domain, it takes that,it parses the domain, it says, all right, where do I goto find out what this resolves to, and so adding in whatever the appropriatelookups are for the crypto and then making that request as all the Theud forWebt your browser. I'd imagine that said about it. It's about it andit's it is. It is really quite simple. I mean, if youwere to go and look up on the blockchain, all you really see isBrad Doc crypto. BTC equals this, LTC equals this, IPFs hatch equalsthis. I mean it's it's actually quite it's quite simple and any any webthree browser currently can buy and manage their domains using your standard portal. Correct, as long as you're long as your webtor in Web your enabled browser,you can still buy, trade, cell, manage at it, devote your currentdomains. Exactly. All right, exactly, makes sense that. Thatseems like it's a relatively easy ask. Why do you feel people are reluctantto do so? Because they don't know any better, because there's not there. There's no user demand. Specifically within their application. What I haven't seena lot of friction around it. So you know, when we were usuallywhen when folks, you know, are become aware of this, they're prettyexcited about it, and so we don't see a lot of a lot offriction. I mean I think that there's you know, there's always like,you know, we robe mapped this this amount of features, and so itmight, you know, we might need to do it after this thing happens. But we don't really come across any fundamental reasons why not. I meanpretty much every while you talk to knows that this idea of copy and pastingthese long addresses is just a really awkward user experience and they face this problembecause their own boarding new users. So...

...the wallet is very often the firstplace that somebody goes when they start playing around with Cryptico and they immediately areare are hit with this problem. And so if you were to go aska wallet, you know, what are your support request look like. Veryfrequently it's like what are these? What are these crazy numbers and letters like, what does this address mean? Very basic stuff like that. And likein the future I don't think people are going to see that stuff. Ithink people are going to get a domain name, it's going to auto assign, you know, it's going to auto asign addresses to them and they're noteven going to have that concept. I don't think that there was a phasewhere the consumer Internet really took off and I told you, hey, checkout my cool website at, you know, two, three, four, seven, two eighty five. You know, there was no point in time wherewhere people were using IP addresses to share viral websites. It's kind oflike you can't really take this next step until you have naming. So Ihave a bit of pushback there personally, but it's it's more of a discussionthan a hard argument, and that is like the social nuances and ways inwhich we conduct ourselves with regards to the Internet and the social morals we havearound it are specifically because of that, because we've never told the user tocare and always had them offload the responsibility to something else. CRYPTO is definitelya potential to turn that on its head and to say like, like,you have the power and optionality to be responsible for your own value and thekeys is so in the and the security associated with keeping it yourself, andthe more we obuskate that the more we we stay along those social more raysof offloading responsibility and security for convenience. And so you don't get any realchanges if the user doesn't have to think any differently or treat the system separately. And so if, and my opinion, if we are to kind of,I guess, do what we're trying to do in a lot of thecases of the applications and people who are in the space, like you,have to have some type of change in the interaction and intuition of how tooperate with the centralized applications and the and the associated assets that you're dealing with, and so like, that's that's a spectrum. That's not that. Like, like you said earlier, that's not a it's not a dichotomy. It'snot one of the other. You know, I think, I think, Ithink I totally agree with that. I would just say that the domainname is also that. So the domain name has this same characteristic that thecryptocurrency itself has, which is that it's self custody, that it's a selfsovereign asset. And so you're fixating the user on a self sovereign asset witha name that's easier to remember and pronounce and refer to, as opposed tothe public address. And so your obfiscating one self self sovereign asset for another. Or what you're really doing is you're kind of rolling the self sovereign assetstogether in some ways. Yeah, and I think that's really more just sortof a UI thing, but it doesn't actually change the fundamental responsibility the user, which is I control my stuff and that and I don't say white.How do you say, for instance, I'd make a bunch of registrations onmy name and the things that are important to me and I lose the AssociatedPrivate keys those registrations and then said I no longer have access to them.Are Gone there by computer crash and I didn't back them up appropriately. Youcan't do anything about that. How do...

...you then educate the user to appropriatelyback these things up, because that's going to be an eventual part of asystem like this. Is just basically stuff that's lost that could never be foundagain. Like it could it be really good domains that people want to use, especially if the system gets really popular. It's like, I don't know thatthat that domain is dead. It no longer has control because the guylosses private keys when it first started. There will be Zombie domains. Itis inevitable. I think the Nice thing is that there's virtually limitless number ofdomains if you think about it from a combinations perspective. So yes, youmight lose some really great premium domains out there that can no longer be used, but it's not as if a system could suffer from so many losses thatit wouldn't have functional domains. In terms of the education, I I thinkwe're in the same boat, as you know, essentially every crypto asset,and so there's going to be, you know, there's going to be multiSIG schemes for important, important domain name assets. There's going to be backuptools, there's even going to be institutional level custodians for temporary storage and thingslike that. There's going to be basically everything that you would see with acryptocurrency here. It's just that people will remember, you know, if BitcoinDOC crypto gets lost and it becomes the Zombie, a Zombie domain, peoplewill remember that much more than one random btc where the same thing happened toit. So it's going to be like more noticeable here, I think,but it doesn't. But the dynamics are still the same and there's a flipside of that, which is an idea that we've actually thought was kind ofinteresting, which is that it's actually possible to put up a website that noone can take down, not even you by throwing away your keys. Sothere's a there's a flip side to this where you can actually create a websitethat literally is impossible to take down by anyone, assuming that where it's hostedcan also not be taken down. So, like it's pinned somewhere an IPFs,assuming it's hosting an IPFS's like the resolution can't be taken down. Soyou have like rest assuming that the back end hosting of IPFs stays true andit's pinned somewhere that can also never be taken down to but like that isn'tactually there's ways to make that more robust overtime too. So IPFs is amazing. They have tons and tons of awesome developers building building tools for it.But we're not opposed to other decentralized stores networks either, and a lot ofour users have actually asked us, you know, can we can we launchtwo multiple stores networks. Can we also remove the risk of the stores networkitself? So I'm on a thousand different nodes inside of IPFS and I'm ona thousand different nodes on two other networks too. So we can continue tomake this more and more robust on the on the hosting side over time.Okay, running out of time. So I've kind of trying to figure outkind of the questions I want to ask, because that's going down that rapper holesomething I wouldn't mind pursuing. But I noticed when I was looking upunstoppable domains before this interview and I searched for a couple of domains associated withmy name, that they're under a reserved or like specific type of list thatbasically says, like, you know, no one can take to see whatwe do. You need proof in order to have this. Where did thatlist come from and why is it there? Yeah, so the idea is thatone of the problems that we saw with a blockchain domain registry, we'veintroduced this new problem where domain cannot be taken away and as a result,it means that you need to be much more concerned about people who might justbuy and squat on someone's brand, and this is a huge problem in thetraditional domain name world. They have what's...

...called a sunrise that's meant to addressit, where you basically give brand owners right a first refusal on domain names. So we imitated that process. We used the trademark clearing house is database, along with a handful of other lists from cryptospecific things and others, andwe blocked off all of these domains as unable to be claimed by anyone otherthan the brand owners, and we're just given away for free to all thebrand owners and the including large companies. We've had multiple fortune one thousand companiesclaim their domains as well so far, and the idea was is that wedidn't want the namespace. We didn't want them to miss it. If everythingbecomes available on day one. They're not. They won't heard of it yet becausethis is a small new thing. And then if all those brands can'tget their domains, they can't adopt it and even worse, people will usethe register primarily for fishing attempts other types of scams. So we did thisdefensively. It's a sunrise period that ends December. Thirty one two thousand andtwenty, at which point domains will be freely available, but the idea isto get those in the hands of brand owners as much as possible, andthat's the reason why we're going away for free. We really just want tomake sure that companies have the option in two years, three years, fiveyears to adopt this technology and if they can't get their brands, then theythe brand names and they can't do that. So how does one go about provingthat they are the brand owner? By standard methods, proving through,proving through social media, corporate email addresses, various other things like that. Proofof trademark. Okay, Great. And for the audience out there thatwould like to get a hold of one and it says that it's reserved,there you go, go, go through it, go get one. It'sfree. There's no reason not to at this point, my opinion, I'llbe doing it at that's about all I have for today. Are there anyquestions that you would have liked me to ask that I didn't know this wasactually this was amazing. This was super this was super deep down in thein the way everything works, and this was really fun. I feel likewe covered all the we covered all the key things. The only thing thatI might just sort of, you know, wrap with is is that they're inthe traditional domain name world old we see content being taken down from hostingservices all over the world very frequently. We see it in Turkey, wesee it in Russia, we see it in all places all over the worldbecause hosting services, I. can be subject very easily to the rules andlaws of their land. It means that you, as the publisher, reallydon't have the right to say whatever you want, and we think that isa critical, critical flaw in the current Internet and not the way it shouldwork, that anyone should be able to publish and transact online without censorship.Now what apps do with all of that and whether or not I believe thatwhat you're publishing is ethical, whether or not I want to see it ismy choice or my applications choice. But at the base layer that shouldn't happenbecause we don't have a secure, safe and for Internet if we don't havethat. So all right, that's a nice wrap up. For those thatlike to learn more on stoppable DOMAINSCOM and for the back end infrastructure stuff,you can be there's a you have unstoppable domains on Github to check out allthe codes that's available. Anything else that people should reach out to? Yeah, but also I would also check us out in telegram. There's a conversationgoing there. There's also a Dev chat and you can also check out docsent ensopple domainscom and check out how to do integration and all that stuff.Awesome. Thanks to come on a show. Thanks a bunch.

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